Wow.

Last year we doubled our employee's number and yeah, that was a very rapid scale and huge growth and a company has around 15 digital products and most of them are digital apps. And we are focusing on chronicle diseases and our goal is to treat, prevent and manage chronicle diseases worldwide for all the people around the world.

So people are working as in Google - in different teams right? Not in one company? How is it organised?

Correct, correct. It's a venture. It's like a venture group; each of the product is a different venture and they work in the teams and each product for example our diabetes app they have their own team and there are around 40 people there. They have their own CEO. There is CMO, there are product people, there are engineering, so each of the products have their own team. There are some shared resources which are used for those products that are developed and but mostly they are supporting our R&D department. Which is working very hard and is very strong and big. This is them one of the main.

So they get born in R&D department and then the new department basically borns and then you create a new product.

Correct correct. They're creating, they are testing new products in R&D department and later they grow - when they pass all the test phases, when they see the light and become the separate venture. There's one of the ways. The second way is via Co-founder program of ours. , We invite people with ideas who want to help and to work in Digital Health sector. And then they become part of KiloHealth as well.

Okay, awesome. Does this help and how is the recruitment organized by the way? Is it centralized or each of the team has a dedicated recruitment specialist?

No, we have our own HR department and it's quite big. We have around 30 people I guess, including communication and events teams. And we decided that if we will have different recruiters in each of the team, there will be a competition between the products. And this is exactly what we don't want - each candidate to compete with inside companies. So we have our centralised HR department and we recruit for each of the product - either it's a product, either it's a shared resources, it's centralised.

But just out of the curiosity - how are the HR people deciding, for example, there is a developer or a marketing specialist. How do you decide to which team the person is most suitable?

You know it's the opposite way it works, because first there comes the demand from the hiring manager. For example, let's take a SensorHealth, our mental health app. For example, they need a product person and they reach out to us and they say okay we have a demand for this kind of person, for this kind of candidate. And then we recruit a specialist for them. Sometimes, there are situations when we're looking for product people, for example, several product teams contact us and say that they need a certain person. So for recruiters, it's quite easier because you can suggest even for the candidate,either he's more into mental health or more into I dont' know weight loss. So it's an option and it's an advantage for us that we can choose what we'd like to.

But aren't hiring managers competing between each other?

Yes and no - there were situations when when they were competing but the more mature they become the less competition there is. After all the goal is for whole KiloHealth to succeed, and for the whole KiloHealth to be successful, so the competition isn't that big.

Yes, I believe it's very important to understand that still you're working in the same company for the same purpose. Otherwise it's only the competition between products which is then like totally different story. Ok, and when talking about the recruitment failures, could you share any - because I believe if you have 600 people there should be quite a few failures too.

Yes, correct. I would say there are several stages where we were making mistakes at first stage, I would say the beginners stage, there were several mistakes such as, for example, the moment when we learned that diversity is the key to our success and for successful team because when we started and with those 7 people. Of course we wanted to dublicate you know, copy paste each of that 7 you know to be this especially totally the same person and profile for hiring and expanding the team. But it was quite a long journey to learn that and understand, but now we are very colourful squad, some of us are extroverts, some of us are introverts, some of us are party animals, some of us are home bodies, age, sex, orientation, marital status - it doesn't matter at all. Now we are very diverse and we see a big advantage of that diversity. It was kind of a lesson in a beginning that we learned. The second for the same phase, beginner's stage, I would stay it was a very funny story, when we understood that we've reached the limit of local lithuanian market and what shall we do now? Ok, let's go global. We need to go global. And it was that we went global like literally. Our HR systems almost crashed because we were receiving so many applications and so many attention. Then we learned that global doesn't mean the whole world. We need to have a specific focus, targeted markets, which we have now. There we recruit and it's kind of enough to have precise markets. Having in mind - how did we choose these markets? We chose regarding the time zone, regarding the culture similarities, especially logistics, because Lithuania isn't very good and very comfortable hug regarding the flights. So it was a very funny story.

So what other countries you are looking for talents at?

Mostly we're focusing on Berlin and probably there is no need to explain why, because it's a hub of startups, and we're looking for experienced people,working and who are used to startup vibes and speed and base and so on so forth. So Germany is one of those markets, there is also Netherlands, Amsterdam, also Nordics. So we are focused mostly there.

And currently out of 600 people how many are in Lithuania and what is the percentage outside?

I'm not sure I am able to share the precise number, but we have employees from 18 different countries.

Wow

So it's quite yeah, it's quite international most of them definitely work remotely and each of the team you know is mixed from different nationalities.

Could you give any specific case that you understood that, well, this is the failure. We made a decision and it's not working and we have to change something?

Oh there were quite many. For example, one of the main and current mistakes that we are dealing and working with, is learning how test days are important. Having in mind what kind of pace are we living in and sometimes we just want the recruitment process to finish as soon as possible and we need that position to be filled as soon as possible. So sometimes there is a huge desire and temptation to skip that part where you announce the candidate. For example, 3 interviews but now there will be a task or something, so sometimes we skip that part and quite often we regret after that. So we found test days very important. Not only for tech people but also for all other positions either it's a test day, either it's a homework, either it is a task given. So we found it very very important and sometimes, our record breaking story was when we had a candidate and he was talking to and he passed 7 interviews, and we were still not sure either he's a fit for us or not. And we came with a brilliant idea - why don't we give him a test day or a task and then we provided them a task. After we got the the feedback and result of this assignment. Yeah, it was quite a clear learning that it's not our guy or girI, I can't remember which one it was. But yeah I would say that the test day is almost each time - if we skip it, we regret it.

Yeah, I know this feeling. Actually, we had two hires -  one was a salesperson, another one was a developer. And we, in our case, we didn't ask for references. One was because first for the head of sales, we totally forgot. We were so excited that the person is joining our team and me, I used to be a recruiter myself,  I forgot about the simple thing to check the references and there was a huge regret afterwards. And the other person was like -  I was scared because once I had a situation when I asked for the references and the previous hiring manager got to know that person is open for the new challenges and went after that person and then the candidates told us "no, you know I'm not joining because my previous employer asked me to come back" and yeah, so but still, it's so important not to be afraid but to go according all those steps required to be 100% sure. But still is it possible to be a hundred percent sure, what do you think?

I think it's impossible. That's why we have you know those three months that we can decide, because every time I meet a candidate and all the recruiters meet the candidates,  we all emphasize that mutual fit. That the fit should be from both sides. And you know that probation period is not only for us if we didn't make any hiring mistakes, but from the candidate's persperctive as well. Regarding those references, one of the reasons why we focus more on testing instead of referral check, but we have a little bit different story regarding the referrals. Because we have a very strong culture and it's very important - cultural check in the recruitment process. When we received highly recommended person and he said oh he's so senior, he's perfect. He's working so good. Okay, if people say we believe and then we hired them and it was one of our mistakes as well. So sometimes the references can be based on personal sympathy, not on professional.

Yeah, totally correct. I actually had one HR manager and she asked for the references about the candidate and they were terrible but she was like, "well, maybe the environment was wrong."  In our environment maybe that person could succeed and they succeeded very much so references is not like something golden you have to take by heart and that's it. It's very important to find out, is it really matching to your culture or not. But  could you give out of your hiring experience an example when you hired, when you were almost hundred percent sure that the person is very much suitable to that team you're hiring for. And after a few months you understood that it was a mistake?

Yes, actually I can. It was much faster than several months. I'm mostly working with C-level recruitment and we have a procedure, where there are several online interviews, because most of our job ads are global, not the whole world, but still global,  and most of my candidates are foreigners and from abroad. So we have interviews with several people, hiring managers and board members and so on so forth and we say okay this sounds like a good fit but we have a tradition and we invite the candidate wherever he is in the world to come to Lithuania, to Vilnius, to our headquarters, to meet our hiring managers in person. Then they meet the team, everybody they will be working with and all of the stakeholders. And then we have like some workshops, go to have dinner,  and so on so forth. So then we met a person in person and there was a situation. We invited the candidate into the final stage and from the first interview, there were many redflags and later we just understood that it's not our guy from the very beginning.  Thanks God we have this check, because we would have made a big mistake.

What were the red flags?

Cultural fits as well as in that precise, actually there was competence. You know that person wasn't able to deliver and to talk in the terms that we expected them to talk and to operate in knowledge that position had to operate. It was all over the place the redflags.

I also had this case when there was a very suitable candidate, looking from all the perspectives and they passed a few interviews. And the last one was meeting a team presenting a task, and after that meeting all the team members like came to me shocked and I was like what happened, and they were "you know, we started criticizing, giving some negative feedback. And that candidate started being very nervous and even angry about everything and it's like we cannot invite them to our team, because even during the interview process the person is angry and with negative attitude". And yeah, what I also would like to ask - about your opinion because you mentioned a very important thing like personality right? And we, hiring managers and recruiters, we cannot ask personal things, from candidates -  like about the age or the marital status or so and so on. So what do you think about this and how to find out about the personality of the candidate then.

We at KiloHealth, we find very important as I mentioned that cultural fit and that cultural match. The moment, the first day I probably joined KiloHealth, I had like a workshop with our CEO Tadas Burgaila, and it was totally informal and he said, sometimes, when I'm totally unsure about the cultural fit, I always imagine that candidate, that precise candidate I'm unsure about, sitting next to me in a long flight, for example, to NewYork. Would I prefer them sitting next to me or would I prefer them sitting somewhere further from me?  As recruiters we have our doubts, sometimes we have definitely yes, sometimes we have definitely no, but there are sometimes situations in between. And you then have doubts. So for me, it is a very useful tip when I imagine that person and that cultural check personality. But regarding those questions about the marital status.We don't ask them but we just it's always in recruiter positions, it's very difficult, because you as a recruiter, you have to always provide the evidence, not the emotions. But sometimes it's just the emotion that matters and sometimes the emotion that leads you there. So I'm thankful for KiloHealth and for this environment that emotional reason is a reason here. So if you don't feel it and the second person doesn't feel it, it's a no. But doesn't matter the marital status and everything and the age and the nationality. What we look for it is the person who have core values - it is the ownership, freedom and creativity.

Right. And it's not related to age or to marital status or something else. That's correct. Okay, great. So thank you Ugne so much for sharing your stories and about the KiloHealth culture and how to select the perfect candidate out of the cultural aspect.

Thank you, thank you Indre for having me.

And thank you to all the listeners. For more podcast please visit http://jobrely.com.